This forums contains threads of various tournaments, competitions, and rankings in populous.

Moderators : Kiyana, [AsG]Apnea, [AsG]Keith52


      The CELO-tables are updated atleast once per day.

      CELO Ranking:
      clogo Pos Grade [ scaled CELO ] ... | avgCELO | ... Ctag Cname :: Players ... games/player :: Percentile
      Image 1 Image [ 12975 ] ... | 1622 | ... [GoD] Gods of Destruction :: 8 ... 16,4 :: 70,8%
      Image 2 Image [ 12840 ] ... | 1605 | ... [AsG] Asgard :: 6 ... 18,8 :: 65,7%
      Image 3 Image [ 12438 ] ... | 1555 | ... [TgW] The Great Wall :: 8 ... 15 :: 49,2%
      Image 4 Image [ 12355 ] ... | 1544 | ... [Rw] Royalwidows :: 7 ... 16,6 :: 45,7%
      Image 5 Image [ 12167 ] ... | 1521 | ... [TDM] The Dark Masters :: 8 ... 18,3 :: 38%

      Current All-Time Record: 10. April 2009 - [GoD] Gods of Destruction (10): CELO 1696

      Clan-Lineups by ELO:

      A – class
      Class Pos [ sumELO ] CLAN | avgELO | lineup, Perc
      A 1 Image[ 6768 ] Image | 1692 | ... Hazama , pit63 , L_Lawliet , KitKat :: 87,257%
      A 2 Image[ 6658 ] Image | 1664 | ... Ragnj , Daroo , Storm , Staszek :: 81,762%
      A 3 Image[ 6560 ] Image | 1640 | ... Tundar , Comet , cuckoo , Prime :: 75,827%
      A 4 Image[ 6466 ] Image | 1617 | ... addiction , Rikkarudo , Macca , Fury :: 69,21%
      A 5 Image[ 6427 ] Image | 1607 | ... playful , CandyGod , Mr-Tank , Supertribe :: 66,267%

      B – class
      Class Pos [ sumELO ] CLAN | avgELO | lineup, Perc
      B 1 Image[ 6207 ] Image | 1552 | ... Luke94 , Vlek , Kotaro , Phoenix :: 48,225%
      B 2 Image[ 5877 ] Image | 1469 | ... carlos , mayan_warrior , Souleater , Legend :: 22,956%
      B 3 Image[ 5740 ] Image | 1435 | ... Wicked , SemiShaman , SilverSurfer , Harikkerk :: 15,127%

      C – class


      The BOC
      Pos Grade Type | ELO | ... CTAG PLAYER :: CHANGE | N |( MAXELO )| PERCENTILE CLogo
      2 Image Mix | 1875 | ... DT_ Keith52 :: -3,4 | 64 |( 1879 )| 99,998% Image
      3 Image Mix | 1837 | ... [AsG] Ragnj :: 1,4 | 61 |( 1856 )| 99,988% Image
      4 Image Mix | 1751 | ... [TgW] Tundar :: -2,6 | 23 |( 1838 )| 99,661% Image
      6 Image Mix | 1722 | ... [GoD] Hazama :: 19,5 | 24 |( 1749 )| 99,158% Image
      8 Image Mix | 1713 | ... [Rw] addiction :: 3,5 | 30 |( 1713 )| 98,891% Image
      11 Image Mix | 1685 | ... [TLL] Sneaky Dragon :: 7,6 | 43 |( 1688 )| 97,562% Image
      12 Image Mix | 1681 | ... [TDM] playful :: 5,6 | 21 |( 1696 )| 97,324% Image
      35 Image Mix | 1516 | ... [AODX] 777 :: -25,3 | 6 |( 1542 )| 53,612%
      41 Image Mix | 1501 | ... [PBS] Toni :: 13,7 | 5 |( 1516 )| 46,611% Image
      71 Image Mix | 1392 | ... [PL] grzybek1406 :: -9,4 | 7 |( 1487 )| 9,772%

      Current All-Time Record: 10. April 2009 - [GoD] Gods of Destruction (10): CELO 1696
      Former All Time Records:
      19. Mar. 2009 - [GoD] Gods of Destruction (10): CELO 1694
      10. Sep. 2008 - [TDM] The Dark Masters: CELO 1687
      06. Sep. 2008 - [TDM] The Dark Masters: CELO 1682.5
      17. Aug, 2008 - [GoD] Gods of Destruction: CELO 1647.9
      04. July 2008 - [AsG] Asgard: CELO 1607.7
      04. June 2008 - [AsG]: CELO 1592
      07. May 2008 - [GoD]: CELO 1588,1
      02. May 2008 - [AsG]: CELO 1586,2
      Feb. 2008 - [GoD]: CELO 1577

Notes on the CELO:
The Clan ELO (CELO, scaled sum ELO) is the the sum of the active clanmembers overall ELO (including 1v1 and 2v2 games) with the current number of rated (active) clanplayers per clan as reference number for the scaling.
Reference Clan Size:
Based on active clanplayers and the size of each clan there is an average active Clansize calculated - the reference size.
Players of a clan are taken in or taken out of the clans rating to meet the reference size best. If a clan has less active players than reference number: inactive players additionally are rated for their clan - starting with the next previous active player up until the reference number is reached or no player available. Inverse when a clan has more active players than the reference number: The less active players become unrated until the reference number is reached.
The intention is to make it better to compaire and to take activity into account.
Scaling the CELO:
If all listed clans had the same number of rated members now, then the CELO was the sum of the ELOs of the players - combined power.
Still there might be clans with less rated players than the reference number, which would make the sums not expressive.
Therefore the sumCELO is scaled:
The ELO sum of the clans rated players divided by their number gives the strength (ELO) which one (imagined) player contributes to his clans combined power when all members were thought equal in skill.
That part multiplied with the reference number gives the Scaled CELO of the clan.
Scaled CELO = (sumELO / players) * reference clan-size

The average ELO (avgELO) is the sum of the players ELOs divided by the number of players. This is like the clan would be in average representated by one player having that ELO.
That value is used for getting the Percentile of a clan in the overall community player distribution.
Last edited by TeratO on Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:42 pm, edited 1060 times in total.
User avatar
By Suleiman
Ya this is kind of stupid. I shunned this project after reading this line:
TermatO wrote:Its not really accurate.
Okay, so then if it's not even accurate, what's the point of doing it? Just drop the whole "i gunna lead the elo leagues" dream, TermatO, you're not going to achieve eFame anytime soon.
User avatar
By TeratO
lol Pooleiman, already wondered that u were not the first who let his drop down here.

I forgot the word "yet" in the sentence "Its not really accurate "yet".
Its same with elo-experiment elos. Its not static - its the current standing - like i wrote above, maybe u overread that.
So might be better to call it the current performance ranking.

And its always funny: Some ppl expect 150% accuracy of new systems while they are satisfied by 10% of the current system or by all that biased "personal" estimations. And then they also expect a new system would be that godmodelike that it can sniff a players ranking just by knowing his name. Players who dont join a rating cant have a proper rating - very simple isnt it? Elo-system still is a really accurate system but like every rating system: its not a clairvoyant. Ppl still have to prove if they win or not.
So if you want to make it 150% accurate - just join and report games and take patience. As long as not - be free to ignore it.
User avatar
By TeratO
To avoid a misunderstanding:
im not sure if i used the word "really" right. English is not my mothertongue. So the sentence "its not really accurate" is NOT ment as the ranking is not accurat atall. The meaning is: Its not that completely accurat that it will be. But the tendency is currently on the right way.

YaYa i know i know - now the low rated clans start complaining. "wtf why are we that low, we have such good players" and why is [PoP] first?
In my opinion the clan playing strength is the average of the members. Therefore you can have a clan with a few very decent players with high elo and the other 80% below average players push down the Clan average.
The advantage of a big clan is that its average is relatively resistant against bigger changes of single players. The disadvantage is that many low elo players push down the clan elo.
On the other side a small clan: a single player can change the average more - either higher or lower. A small clan is less resistant against clan elo changes by single player changes or new player. This is advantage and disadvanatge same time, depending if the change is to higher or lower.
For example [PoP] is 1st because only 3 players are rated and Admirals pushes up the clan elo. But it will change much if either Admirals loses elo points or if a new member with low elo is rated.

Dunno if i should let clans with less than 7 rated players in the list?
What do you think?
User avatar
By Suleiman
By "it's not really accurate" you meant "it's accurate to a certain extent, but it's not totally and completely accurate." Why isn't it accurate? Because people can't be bothered to submit their scores to you (and it's probably because they'd have to talk to you to do so).
User avatar
By TeratO
Pooleiman: "it's accurate to a certain extent, but it's not totally and completely accurate."
<-- Yes, there you are right when u add "yet" at the end.

But i think you still didnt get the rest. I guess your also thinking a new system must be 150% accurat. You never will find that. And like i said many times before: the more games the more its skill ranking only. That state is not reached yet. ITs a mixture going more and more to skill. Once its spread it doesnt matter if a player reports me 5 games a week or 20 per day.

Some ppl really seem to think the elo-system could sniff the rank by name and 10 games. I have 800 game reports overall - sounds really many. But if u consider that there are 200 players in list then it makes an average of only 4 game reports per player respectively 16 game results per player (if only 2v2s). And for such less data the tendency shown is really good.
Imagine if it was automated: Lets say there are only round 100 regular finished games a day. Lets say it makes round 500 a week overall, which are suitable for rating. 1.5 weeks and the Elo-league is at the current standing. That much time? Only 10 more players who report 10 games a week each (rememeber they play 20 a day) makes 100 game reports makes 400 game results. Elo-table would already been spread. Do you think that is bothering? Reporting 1 game lets say every 2 days by 40 players? I think no.

I always agreed - best would be automated, no doubts.
I mean for me its not much work, when i get a game report i select the playernames in a list, put in a 1 for the winner, hit a key for calculating, hit a key for sorting, copy and paste the formatted table into forums - finished.

Nobody is bothered to do anything. Its on them to put their "energy" in reporting games or not. PPl for example bother like hell posting in threads like "whos best player" etc. Thats much much more writing. (Or at clan tournaments: players have to report their games too - are they bothered to do?).
Other ppl are just spoiled kids - they expect everything for nothing and then put all their energy only in complaining and critize everything when they dont get it blown up their cornholio. Maybe they never did any real work in their life. I wish admirals the best for his WCC - but i see it starts there the same way: all want everything for nothing. Admirals takes their suggestions - then they start complaining again etc. etc. Really hard to make something new for fun when ppl are so egofocused that nobody can satisfy them because they always feel threaten by a ghost that would deal them unfair. They just cant see a game as a game and a game is for fun.
Logically ppl start having fear of a game loss, but not because of the loss, but because of the triumphating of the winner, because of beeing called a noob and a sucker after a loss. So they avoid a loss at any costs.
And thats what in my opinion is the real reason for a few good players critizising every new ranking system - their fear of a loss, the fear of not beeing that highranked they supposed to be and especially the fear of beeing blamed for that - it's nothing more than an avoiding strategy.

I have a different view on that and its very simple: A winner is nothing without the loser.
So give honour to the loser.

And something for you Suleiman personal (this is no offense): You support this ghost by yourself. Dividing the world into winners and loser, owners and suckers leads to nothing more but fight but never to anything productive. You see the ghost everywhere and especially behind me. You think im doing this for "eFame" (never heard that word before) and for giving me advantages at leagues or for "taking over the reigns" of popre or wtf else etc. Theres only one conclusion from this, because you're definetively wrong there: You own that way of thinking by yourself. (Thats way i say that "projection" things.) But the more you push ppl down the more you have to prove you're high - and thats endless. That creates pressure and fear and the ghost is growing. Why do you put your energy in a ghost? Hey - just put it to your website or just report me a game sometimes. 8)

To come back to the Elo-ranking:
I view the elo-system as a tournament - a tourmnament that goes on permantly - a tournament without end.
Last edited by TeratO on Sun Jan 27, 2008 4:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
By Frodo_BagginZ
If xXx wins the monthly clan leagues, which we will, and this also means we have won more games than anyone else. So shouldn't we have a higher elo ranking? =/
User avatar
By TeratO
The monthly clan leagues count the points like the points league?
If you define the skill of a clan by its accumulated points then in the same way the whole community would have to admit that i'm the best player ever... looool.

Accumulated points just show the activity of a player or clan and additionally the size of a clan.
The bigger a clan is the better he is? More members means more games means more points. A 7 player clan with equally skilled players like a 30 members clan would have to play round 4 times as many games to gain the same points.
xXx is one of the biggest clans by members (the biggest?). But is it the "biggest" in performance?

Like Sub said: It depends who u play.
And currently in the experiment (because its not spread yet) also on amount of wins or losses.
And not all players in a clan are rated in the elo table. If i have no game results of a player i cant rate him.

If you want to push xXx up:
- report more games/wins
- play other clans and win
- get more of your clanmates to join and report too. :)

like i said in previous thread: 5 more reporters, each reports 1 or 2 games a day and i have 20 to 40 player results more a day (if only 2v2). Makes round 100 to 200 results more per week.
User avatar
By TeratO
updated: AsG changed place with PL
User avatar
By [AsG]daroo
TeratO wrote:updated: AsG changed place with PL
not for long ! :)
User avatar
By [AsG]Ragnj
Our goal in life have just been reached, lets end it all while were on top!
User avatar
By TeratO
updated: GoD changed place with xXx
By Retro
and HUN clan in the 5th yea 8)
User avatar
By TeratO
- RW changed place with TLL
- [AsG]Drummerdude48 changed place with [PoP]Admirals
User avatar
By TeratO
! IMPORTANT UPDATE ! --- Change OF Factor K

Due to the slow spreading of the elo-table in experiment i decided to use a new formula for the calculation of factor K. The new formula is the one used by the austrian chess federation.
Now K is calculated independant from the number of games played and only depends on the difference of the players Elo to a high elo. That high Elo is 3400.

equation: K = (3400-own Elo)^2 / 100000

- much higher K factors at the current state of the league and therefore league is spread faster to real elos AND rank sorting of players is faster.
- the maximum possible ELO is set to 3400 by the formula.
- higher Elo oszillations in the lower Elo ranges when 2 players with same Elo play against each other.
- to fit to the K formula the scaling Factors F(1v1) and F(2v2) are set back to the original values. F(1v1)=400; F(2v2)=200

The win expectations equation and the pointchange-calculation formula stay the same! So the player still are sorted relatively by their win/lossprobabilities!

A (Elo 1200) vs B (Elo 1200):
Both have K= 48.4 - winner gains 24.2 points, loser lose 24.2
(up to now it was 12.5 if less than 30 games and 7.5 if more than 30 games)

A (1500) vs B (1300), K(A)= 36.1, K(B)=44.1,
- A WIN: pointchange A: +9 , B: -11
- B WIN: pointchange A: -27, B: +34

A(2200) vs B(1800), K(A)=14.4, K(B)=26
- A WIN: pointchange A: +1.3 , B: -2.3
- B WIN: pointchange A: -13.9 , B: +23

A (3100) vs B (1600), K(A)= 0.9, K(B)=32
- A WIN: pointchange A: 0.0 , B: 0
- B WIN: pointchange A: -0.9 , B: +32

So i think the new table sorting looks much more like expected and its more open for all players again now. New joiners can go up faster than before.

Hehe - so now u can mix it up again! Gl Hf 8)

Btw: The Elo table in forums section "Suggestions" looks much different now too.
User avatar
By TeratO
updated: PoP fall from 1. to 5. - Admirals left clan.
User avatar
By TeratO
updated: new overall No.1 : [TDM]Urban - Elo 1510
User avatar
By TeratO
updated: GoD switched place with PL
User avatar
By TeratO
updated: New Elo all-time record: [TDM]Urban - Elo 1525,9
By Retro
TeratO wrote:updated: New Elo all-time record: [TDM]Urban - Elo 1525,9
:shock: TDM gonna own ELO league.
User avatar
By TeratO
updated: PoP removed - only 1 rated player, clan seems to be dead.
User avatar
By [MD]Skylo
damn, i cant reach top again anymore =P
User avatar
By TeratO
updated: PL changed place with HUN and xXx
User avatar
By [MD]Skylo
... well, damn, we going down in everything :/
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